Re: [OS:N:] Re: k12 and red hat

[Colin Mattoon <cjm2 lewiston com>]

On Thu, 6 Mar 2003 14:14:55 -0800 (PST)
David Tisdell <penguintiz yahoo com> wrote:

David:

I do understand.  But as you look at the support offerings out there,
from RedHat and others, they really target a different class of
customer.  The sort of customer who has to track dozens, or even
hundreds, of servers has a real problem keeping everything in sync and
updated.  In many cases, it's largely a matter of automation taking
care of repetitive tasks -- tasks that are not particularly difficult or
time consuming when dealing with 5 or 6 servers -- but that represent
a daunting challenge when they have to be repeated on several hundred
machines.

The IT staff responsible for a huge deployment will barely have time
to get the security updates in place on the last machine when they
have to start a new round and do it all over again. That's my take on
the problem RedHat is attempting to deal with.

So don't misinterpret my remarks to mean I believe that RedHat is a
bunch of insensitive bums or that it is stupid to want some sort of
sopport -- but rather that the market hasn't really discovered much
need for the type of support you'd like to have.  It's sort of like a
spare engine for your car -- handy to have if you really need it --
but is it really an economically practicable solution to a problem? Is
it worth offering?

In my opinion, it really comes down to this: You and/or your staff
have to learn a certain minimum amount about any OS before you can
deploy it.  Once you've learned that, you look at outside support if
you simply don't have the available time/hands/warm bodies to take
care of the number of systems you have to maintain without hiring more
people.  If the systems you have are being maintained without
overworking the crew -- don't worry about support.  Choose you
distribution(s) on the basis of what you like -- not the availability
(or lack of) support.

But if there's too much demand for labor, the problem solves itself.
On a big network, the support contract is going to meet or exceed the
$2000 minimum anyway. If not, well just be thankful that Linux is so
darned reliable and secure that you don't really need the additional
help. And if the school administration isn't demanding that you spend
money for support, proudly point to what you didn't spend as an
example of your excellent judgement and cost cutting skills.

Just my thoughts, and probably worth about what I'm charging for them!


Later,
Colin Mattoon


> Colin, 
> My main cause of concern is that Red Hat doesn't want
> to sell to schools using a PO unless they are spending
> big bucks. I seldom need the support option but I like
> to know that it is there if disaster strikes and I
> can't solve it on my own. I agree Linux is stable and
> usually just runs. 
> Prior to my getting very frustrated with Red Hat, I
> felt like I wanted to do the right thing and
> financially support a product I really liked but they
> don't want my institutions money and they are not
> going to get any of me personal funds either until
> they become more school friendly. Even though you can
> download the iso's for free, I don't object to people
> trying to make a living and my experience with RHN has
> been very good but folks have sent me other options
> for keeping my systems up to date and I probably will
> use one of them rather than beating my head against a
> wall with a company that doesn't want to talk to me. I
> really liked the security advisories that RHN provided
> and the fact that RHN usually solved package
> dependencies for you. I have been through the chains
> of dependency hell when trying to update some packages
> manually. It is time consuming and not a whole lot of
> fun when you have impatient users knocking on your
> door.
> Dave
> > 
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 19:34:30 -0800
> > From: Colin Mattoon <cjm2 lewiston com>
> > To: open-source-now-list redhat com
> > Subject: Re: [OS:N:] K12 and Red Hat
> > Reply-To: open-source-now-list redhat com
> > 
> > On Wed, 5 Mar 2003 17:24:40 -0800 (PST)
> > David Tisdell <penguintiz yahoo com> wrote:<various
> > concerns about
> > RedHat support for schools -- which I clipped for
> > brevity>
> > 
> > I'd ask myself this...If I'm running a handful of
> > Linux servers, do
> > they take so much administrative effort that I
> > really need RedHat's
> > assistance?
> > 
> > With, or without, RedHat's help, you still have to
> > be the sysadmin. 
> > My own experience with Linux (private sector, not a
> > school) is that
> > there really isn't much for an outside support
> > provider to help with.
> > 
> > And, as an IT guy working for a school in the "Year
> > of Our Trashed
> > Economy, 2003," you don't have a whole lot of money
> > to play with
> > anyway.
> > 
> > So, pick a distribution you like on the basis of
> > it's technical
> > features and get it for free by downloading it, or
> > for a few dollars
> > by buying a cheap book with an unofficial download
> > version on a CD in
> > the back cover.  Go crazy with what you get for free
> > and don't worry
> > about supporting the company, because you're working
> > for an
> > educational institution in a country that isn't
> > funding your work
> > properly in the first place.
> > 
> > One of the reasons the support model hasn't made a
> > bunch of Linux
> > companies rich, is that people discover they don't
> > need much support
> > with an OS as stable as Linux, and once they learn
> > enough about Linux
> > to deploy it, they can provide their own support.
> > 
> > Just my thoughts, but I take care of a number of
> > Linux servers myself,
> > and outside support was one of the things I was
> > looking to avoid when
> > I chose Linux over the proprietary alternatives.
> > 
> > Later,
> > Colin Mattoon     
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --__--__--
> > 
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 08:03:42 -0500
> > From: Kevin Cole <kjcole gri gallaudet edu>
> > To: open-source-now-list redhat com
> > Subject: Re: [OS:N:] K12 and Red Hat
> > Organization: Gallaudet Research Institute
> > Reply-To: open-source-now-list redhat com
> > 
> > 
> > --GZVR6ND4mMseVXL/
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> > Content-Disposition: inline
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> > 
> > On Wed, Mar 05, 2003 at 07:34:30PM -0800, Colin
> > Mattoon wrote:
> > 
> > > One of the reasons the support model hasn't made a
> > bunch 
> === message truncated ===
> 
> 
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